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  • desi3933
    06-16 04:33 PM
    Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.

    As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.

    I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
    What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.

    Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company committing pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.

    >> I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market.
    I am glad we are on the same page on this. It is employer who decides how much to pay. Employee decides whether to take the offer or not. Simple.

    >> Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud.
    Well, you can report the fraudulent activity. If one is wronged, he/she has option of legal route and claiming punitive damages.

    >> The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living.
    If my employer pays me less salary, I have option to move to another job. Just like my employer has option to fire me and replace with another qualified worker. Again, unless otherwise, I assume all actions are legal. I don't know about you, but when I came to USA, nobody give me assurance or guarantee that this job is future will pay me at least xx k per year so as to maintain quality of life. Here, two person of equal talent, could be earning 60k and 120k per year. It depends on your skill set, how do you sell yourself, and luck. An example - I have backgound both in Comp Science and Finance, so I look for opportunities where I can use both of them for effective leverage. If you think that I didn't face outsourcing challage or was not given pink slip, then you are wrong. As most professionals, I have seen good days and not-so-good days.

    >> Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too.
    With your admission, it is employer's choice on how much to pay. As long as law is followed, you or I can NOT decide on anyone else's salary.

    >> For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future.
    Bad things do happen. Projects get cancelled as Customer is no longer interested. Employer wants to move from Chicago to Dallas, that may prompt employee to look elsewhere. Some employers do not process green card at all (It happened to me, a Big Bank was not processing Green Cards in 1999). You assume all good and rosy will happen to guenine employers and good employees.

    >> Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies.
    Just as some employers with permanent positions are not good, there are some employers in Consulting and Outsourcing world that may be good. Let USCIS and other agencies determine who are genuine employers or not.

    >> I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!
    No sir. It is employer-employment based. If you don't have employer to back your I-140, how will get green card. Do you know there is a category - Eb3 skilled worker, where benefiery does not even need bachelor degree. What do you think, those people are "lucky". If so, please take your arguement to Senators and USCIS to restict GC for "merit based" only. Until then, as long as one is getting green card, as per current law, (again as per current law), who are we to complain?

    GC is not IIT-JEE exam where there is only one classification. Clear the exam and get the admission. There are varoius categories from EB-1 (Rocket Scientist) to EB-4 (Priest). This is not one-size-fits-all.

    We need to look at issues faced by EB based community from a distance and without the glasses of issues faced personally by us. Until then, it is fight that one is more deserving than the other.


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  • unseenguy
    04-01 02:32 AM
    Please also consider the forced sacrifice country and millions of your countrymate made due to Nehru clan compared to the "sacrifice" Nehru himself made.

    It is true everyone has made some sacrifices but consider if India were not a free country and if Nehru and others like Mahatma Gandhi didn't dedicate themselves to the cause of nation then would we be better off today? We failed to carry the torch left by them for us.

    Has anyone asked them to vote for Nehru dynasty after the blunders? Didnt anyone see it coming? Building society is everyone's responsibility. Not just Nehru or his children's.

    This is like saying we wasted one spot in Indian cricket team on Sachin Tendulkar when he scored 0 in some matches or didnt win a match for India.

    It is team work and collective responsibility that will make this country prosper. Blaming some person by saying all his fault and we are here because he screwed us is not the right thing to do. It just finds a scapegoat and does not solve the problem. We should learn from the mistakes the country has made and learn from them and move forward.

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  • brij523
    02-13 09:12 AM
    Lazycis, Some year back Rajiv did file class action lawsuit. It costed him 1/4 millions + dollars of efforts.

    I think the good start is to consult with Rajiv Khanna. He has an experience in class-actions/federal litigation and will tell whether it is feasible to go this way. It will cost $600 (approximately). To file a class-action complaint will cost around $10k. The rest depends on the lenght of the proceedings, but my estimate is another 20-30k. Peanuts comparing to lobbying :) IV may not want to go this way, as Mark Bartosik once explained, it may hurt its other efforts. If that's the case, potential plaintiffs can work with lawyers directly.

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  • xyz
    06-27 07:47 AM
    This is what my very very high profile attorney wrote in her email to me today....

    " We have heard that there will be a visa regression the first week of July "

    And in immigration matters I trust her more than anybody in this whole country. So guys be ready and prepared. Do what u have to do. Be proactive.

    My post is not to spread rumors or scare people but to help them to grab this golden opportunity.

    I am ready to send papers for July 1st.

    Visa regression (visa dates' retrogression) does not mean that there are no visa numbers for any priority date. If USCIS runs out of visa numbers (i.e. the world-wide quota for the fiscal year) for anybody in EB categories, USCIS will stop accepting further applications. But, if I understand correctly, if mere visa dates retrogress and still there are visa numbers available for some older priority dates, USCIS will keep accepting applications in entire July month.


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  • sunty
    02-13 07:23 PM
    I like the idea but I believe at this time it is crucial to continue participation in the letter campaign. If we do not get success through it, I will be glad to participate in the lawsuit. Also, like me, at that time there might be hundreds of people willing to be a part.

    Same here...I did vote yes for the lawsuit but let's wait a little for Admin fixes or the scaled down CIR version (if it happens).

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  • gc28262
    01-16 06:48 PM
    Thanks for the post. Is there such a requirement when there is a renewal of H1B ?

    There is no such requirement for fresh H1B as well as renewal as per Law. That is why we call it an ILLEGAL memo. We all need to fight this together.

    NB: I am not a specialist in law


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  • injrav
    08-03 12:52 PM
    This only proves that this is an important immigrant issue. Pappu should help educate every one.

    Hi TravInd
    keep going on man
    you are the Pappu of this Thread

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  • badluck
    06-28 12:50 PM
    it is fine to fedex on saturday or not..Please let me know. I have to call my lawyer.


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  • indiancitizen77
    08-28 09:56 PM
    Thanks for the advice and insight about the situation in Canada. Much appreciate your input.

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  • Macaca
    07-04 10:25 AM
    Any URLs that make the following (in IV press release) look more believable

    resulting in inconvenience to at least 100,000 skilled professionals waiting to file for "adjustment of status"
    One estimate puts the expenses by applicants over the last two weeks at over $6,000 million in filing fees


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  • gc4me
    03-27 08:56 AM
    By Apr 26, if the LC Sub elimination becomes effective, will USCIS reject all pending LC Sub cases (I mean pending I-140, 485 etc using LC Sub) ?
    Any idea, please reply. Or USCIS will continue processing them as usual?

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  • snram4
    01-16 01:31 PM
    Accepting regulations does not mean to prevent Indians to come here. I can tell many examples. There are many bodyshoppers get h1B and make the persons to sit on bench in India or USA. I know some persons come here 1 year after getting h1b. But many reputed companies those who are real need of people could not get H1b as Cap was reduced. Putting restrictions on on bodyshoppers will improve H1b usage and wastage can be eliminated. And will make h1b program legitimate.

    Wow so ungrateful.
    You make hole in the same vessel you eat.
    You came to this country only because of a desi bodyshopper. Otherwise with your qualifications you cannot even dream of coming to USA on your own.
    Unless you are IIT or IIM.. or some top engineering college, it is highly difficult for someone to come to USA on H1B and take a permanent job. The other route is to come for studies.
    So after coming here by showing your desperation to earn dollars with an NIIT diploma or some shady donation college degree you came via a body shopper. You made a choice in life fully knowing what you are doing. Now you left your bodyshopper and want to hurt him and feel happy for the rule because you do not want others like you to come to US of A via bodyshoppers.

    You know why? Because you do not want other Indians to come behind you and compete with you for jobs.

    Learn to live and let live. Din't they teach you in India as an Indian value. Good luck with your greencard.


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  • hatighora
    07-11 05:55 PM
    I know people who got their GC in 7 months from the date they filed PERM. and then there are many people getting GCs every month. There are both good stories and bad stories to tell about getting GC in US.

    There were times when H1 quota never reached the limit during the whole fiscal year, now they get used in just 2 days. This mess in GC process is a result mainly due to our own actions (temporary workers and consulting companies hiring temporary workers). Do you think majority of us once we get GC, stay with the consulting company that filed for our GC? When a consulting company files for PERM, they already have a foreign national working under H-1B in that position. So where is the real intent to hire an American when some foreigner is already working at that position?

    This employment based GC is a way for us foreigners to immigrate to US easily at one point. Now due to our extreme usage and abuse of this process, there are genuine people who are being sponsored to immigrate to US are also suffering. In a true employment GC scenario, the company should be desperate to keep you for a long time (more than 6 years after H-1B is maxed) for your valuable skills that they were unable to find in others. But in most GC cases, looks like we temporary workers are more desperate than our employers for the GC? aren't we? Do you see any companies sweating on how to retain you with them, because you H-1B is expiring and they have no way to keep you?

    Do not put all the blame on US immigration system, the majority of the blame should fall on us and the companies who are helping us to get GCs when our cases are not based on genuine sponsors.

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  • sidbee
    02-15 02:44 PM
    I dont understand the whole point of discussion here ... What does the IV Senior Members think about this , The idea of a lawsuit to capture the loss immigrant visas, is not against USCIS, its against the system. Infact the USCIS should be on our side, as per the USCIS Ombudsman, Mr .

    Atleast we should try , discussing and cribbing on the forum wont help.


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  • rajeev_74
    09-23 05:36 AM
    As completely unrelated these two issues are (from a law maker's perspective) on a normal day, these are possibly those times when each of these issues can help the other.

    IV has been discussing about the possibility of one for two solution (partial). The idea is to request congress to exempt EB applicants & their dependents from numerical limits of the Immigrant visas, if they buy a home. It is my belief that market sentiment is the most important thing in any financial market(s) and the housing prospects look pretty bleak. There are lot of members in the EB community that have NOT bought their own home, even though they could afford one because of the uncertainty with EB GC. IV's idea is to bridge the financial committees and judiciary committees in the House/Senate and see if corresponding Chairman/Ranking members are willing to listen. Things are moving so fast with the 700bn USD bail out plan and we will NOT have time to do things the normal way, through our counsel. We have to present this idea to the corresponding staff members of key members of congress (see list below) and see if this gets traction now or going forward.

    Please do not bring EB-5 discussion/comparison here. The proposed partial solution is different from EB-5 in that EB-5 investors invest money and we are investing in our future with a genuine intention of making USA our permanent home.

    If you already have a home, thats fine. Any such legislation will reduce the wait times in EB categories and we need housing markets to rebound for a safer economy before the ripple effects are felt every where.

    Who to write to

    Staff members(Chief of Staff, Legislative LA, Financial LA, Legislative Director) of Chairman/Ranking members of House/Senate Judiciary committee & Finance/Banking committee, Staff members of your representative and your senators. Please find staff members of the committees in the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pptN-jEpAiyd3snslhPjBfw).

    You can find your representative & senator staff members on this website (http://www.outsourcecongress.org/outsource/congress/schstaffers.html).

    Please use valid email addresses and NOT fictitious/junk mail. It undermines the whole purpose and our emails will be flagged by mail scanners / spam checkers as some thing similar to famous Nigeria bank account scams.

    Email Subject: Proposal to alleviate current US Housing/economic crisis



    This proposal alleviates the current US economic crisis, by motivating the US high skilled, legal immigrant workers to purchase homes. The size of this immigrant population is approximately 800,000 individuals. This effort if successful would inject up to US$ 20Billion approximately into the economy (approximately US$ 100 Billion in houses sold across the country) , while at the same time directing this money into the root cause of the economic crisis � the illiquidity of the national housing market. The above calculation is done
    assuming a median US home price of $212,400 and buyers making a down-payment of 20% of the cost of the home. Roughly estimating 400,000 buyers.


    Undoubtedly, we are all devastated by the shake up on Wall Street in the past 15 days. Experts agree that the underpinning problem is the housing crisis caused by sub-prime mortgage loans. Many of us, who cannot afford our monthly mortgage payments are losing homes and putting them up for sale and foreclosure, which further adds to the crisis. At the same time, most of the Employment-based (EB) immigrant community would like to purchase homes and make the United States a permanent home for their families. These EB immigrants however, are living in a state of limbo, mostly in rental apartments because of the delays and uncertainties involved with the EB immigration procedure. The wait times in EB categories are exacerbated by the delays in processing by USCIS, even though eligible applicants have filed for Permanent Residency also known as Adjustment of Status. Such processing delays have resulted in the wastage of 218,000 immigrant visa numbers (Page 52 of USCIS Ombudsman Annual report 2007). The current Department of State visa bulletin shows 7+ years of wait times in certain categories. We strongly believe that legislation can be worked out in such a way that the housing markets all over the country can move towards recovery, while at the same time motivating the Green Card applicants to catalyze this recovery.

    It should be noted that this proposal by no means brings more immigrant workers into the US. The workers in the EB, skilled category are already present in the US, doing skilled jobs that no US worker is available to do. They are part of the long queue of backlogged cases that USICIS will eventually process; however, this wait can take years and in that case could not be used as a tool to minimize the course of the current economic crisis.


    Congress can pass legislation that exempts EB green card applicants and their dependents from the numerical limits of visa numbers, provided applicant(s) have bought a home making 20% down payment on the sale price of the home, for a time period deemed necessary by the congress.

    How can Employment based Immigrants help alleviate the housing problem?

    (1) Employment based immigrants are highly skilled and are employed in occupations such as Software, IT, Health care, Energy, Finance, Education and Research & Development across the United States.

    (2) Average income of these individuals/households is around 65,000/130,000 USD.

    (3) All these Employment based immigrants have gone through Department of Labor�s recruiting process, which certifies that there is no willing, able and qualified US Citizen to do the job.

    (4) Most of the Employment based immigrants have excellent credit history and good source of income to make the payments needed for their home mortgage.

    (5) By requiring a 20% down payment from this group of buyers, Congress can directly channel this money to where it is need most � at the banks.

    (6) Employment based green card applicants have been living in the United States for 6-8 years. Many of them have US graduate degrees in their fields of expertise. These applicants are well versed with the American culture and will not change the cultural landscape.

    (7) Financial burden on US government and treasury will be reduced drastically if the glut of houses in the market decreases.

    As a member of the community that wants to make the US its permanent home, I want to contribute to a solution that helps USA and US during these tough times. I sincerely believe that the 30 year commitment on mortgages by Employment based immigrants in the housing market, backed by solid, risk free mortgages can turn the down ward spiral in the housing market into a upward spiral.


    I feel this is is worth trying...

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  • rahulpaper
    06-26 01:51 PM
    I sure do hope you are right.....because i am in HR boat as well...
    BTW Thanks to you and the core team on CIR front...keep up the good work.

    Once again, what is with this "Flood" and "too many". Petitions are postal packages. They are not Tsunami waves that would prompt them to shut down their doors to prevent flooding. They did get nearly 200,000 petitions in Vermont in one day. What happened ? Did the mail room clerk drown in fedex ? Were the packages overflowing in the parking lot ?

    Guys please stop thinking these logistics, and get a life. USCIS has people who are capable of predicting several hundred mail packages and handling them. They are inefficient and slow but they are not galactically stupid. And if they stop accepting petitions, it wont be because they have received "Too many" because it takes time to define "too many". So chill and try to file it before 31st July.

    These rumors are wreaking havoc on people who are not in a perfect position to control the timing of filing. Many lawyers and many employers will file between 25th and 31st July. And I can accept that. My own HR and lawfirm have made it clear that we will file before 31st July but there is no guarantee that it will be sooner than that and any sooner than that is not neccesary.

    Those who are filing on their own can file on July 1st. But those who are depending on lawyers and their own HR, please relax and stop thinking too much.


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  • eb2waiter
    05-09 05:17 PM
    what I meant was... you can reevaluate your situation from India.
    Since there is nothing there in Canada anyway.

    This is from personal experience. I went through the canadian PR also and now have lost it. I have some friends in Canada and India who had to move because of failure to file for GC before 6yr H1. My view of Canada and other feedback is

    It is not a first world country as they want you to believe.
    The cost of living is very high though the salary is very low.
    Cost of goods is almost the same or most of the time higher than in US.
    Medical is by state (where applicable) but doctors are not good and the wait time is large.
    Taxes are very very high.
    I can go on and onnnn...

    My advice which will save you almost 3k-6k is dont do it if you are waiting for GC. Else you can do it at a short notice. The other options are, if you dont like 5year wait time from India, is to come back in H1 to the US and again reapply. At least this way you know how your GC turned out.


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  • hebbar77
    09-04 03:36 PM
    I second your thoughts...do we have the muscle and money power to take on those gundas. If no, we can not do anything. If yes, you become another group of gundas...

    Like collecting money to lobby for GC we can accumalate money for Political party as well. I can tell you every Indian would contribute to such endeavor.

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  • iviviv
    10-10 01:00 AM
    Thanks for the interesting posts and sharing of your experiences!!!

    I figure that the EB-2 and EB-3 categories are going to remain backlogged for a few years for India. So, the best way to apply for US green card would be to attain Canadian citizenship to provide flexibility of using TN visa and then apply for GC using EB-1 category as a manager. Perhaps, it is not as easy as I make it sound to get a EB-1 success case.

    Are there people out there who have successfully used the EB-1 category or know of anyone who has used the EB-1 category? Is it sufficient for one to be a first line manager to utilize the EB-1 category or does one have to be an executive?

    How many employees does one need to manage to be considered an executive?

    I guess EB-1 remains the only sure bet to get a quick GC, but it is probably difficult to qualify for it.

    01-13 01:07 PM

    07-17 12:50 PM
    there are still atleast 20K visas left this year and atleast 85-90% of those will go to EB2 India. this should clear up a significant majority of the EB2 pending prior to 06/2006. As I mentioned before the numbers will be unavailable towards the end of September as all the visas are used up, but by this time most of the EB2 hat are current now will get their visas. the dates may go back slightly in October- probably to mid 2004 like you said, but it will not stay there for long. with all the Spill over, the dates will start moving rapidly in Nov/dec of this year itself and EB2 India will be current by this time next year. I agree wth your assertion that legislative fix is needed to increase the EB numbers and resolve the backlogs

    how did you come up with the 20K number ?