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  • msp1976
    02-13 03:05 PM
    You guys still think it is horizontal. This has been discussed so many times with reference to the law; the note in november 2005 visa bulletin; another lawyer who received statistics in chinees overall approvals for 2006 which were going to be close to 7% and you guys still believe this is a gray area.

    USCIS today is using the vertical flow...I acknowledge that....

    It might be a defendable position in courts ..... My arguement is that the original text of of the law is ambigous enough to mount a challenge...It might not succeed but it is possible to take a shot at it....It is a long shot.....

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  • vdlrao
    07-21 06:49 PM
    For 2007 we had an availability of 226,000 Family Based Visas. But the issued visas in 2007 in Family Based are 194,900 visas. That means there are 226,000 MINUS 194,900 = 31100. These 31,100
    unused Family Based Visas have been made available for 2008 Employment Based Visas of 140,000. And USCIS has 28,795 unused VISAS of American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act of 2000 (AC21).

    American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act of 2000 (AC21) had recaptured 130,107 visas.
    Out of that 94,000 were used in 2005.
    7,312 were used in 2007.

    So dont know when the available 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 will be used again.

    The unused family based visas of 2007 are 31,100 , which are going to be added for Employement Based Visas of 2008. So the total Employment based visas for 2008 are 140,000 + 31,100 = 171,100.

    Theses 171,100 EB Visas of 2008 will be split like, asuming USCIS is not using the availble 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 below.

    (If USCIS decides to use some or all of 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21, then the available Employment Based VISAS of 2008 increases accordingly. )

    28.6 percent each EB1, EB2 and EB3. 48934 VISAS for Each Category.
    And 7.1 percent each EB4 and EB5. 12148 VISAS for the last two EB categories.

    So in 2008 the total Visas for EB1 and EB2 are 48934 + 48934 = 97868 plus unused EB4 and EB5 visas of 2008.

    The total EB5 Visas usage never crossed 824 in the past 10 years(Average Usage is 376/year).

    So there would be 11148 visas available for EB1 from EB5 (assuming 1,000 visas are used in EB5 which is highly impossible)

    The unused EB4 Visas may be couple of thousand or null, based on the past 10 years EB4 usage (7,223 is the average usage)

    Assume there are only 2,000 EB4 VISAS unused in 2008 (defenitely it would be more unused).

    So IN THE WORST CASE the total EB1 and EB2 Visas for 2008 are

    48934 + 48934 + 11,148 + 2,000 = 111,016

    IN THE BEST CASE, ASSUMING USCIS USES ALL 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 FOR 2008 AND THERE WOULD BE 5,000 UNUSED EB4 VISAS, THE TOTAL EB1 AND EB2 VISAS FOR 2008 ARE GOING TO BE 111,016 +3,000(EB4)+ 2*(28,795/3) = 111,016 +3,000+19196 = 133,212

    Total (EB1+EB2) from 1998 to 2007 --> 35737, 23401 , 47821, 84222, 78484, 29859, 63825, 107328, 58871, 70859

    So IN THE WORST CASE the total (EB1+ EB2) Visas for 2008 are

    48934 + 48934 + 11,148 + 2,000 = 111,016

    IN THE BEST CASE, ASSUMING USCIS USES ALL 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 FOR 2008 AND THERE WOULD BE 5,000 UNUSED EB4 VISAS, THE TOTAL EB1 AND EB2 VISAS FOR 2008 ARE GOING TO BE 111,016 +3,000(EB4)+ 2*(28,795/3) = 111,016 +3,000+19196 = 133,212


    Type and class of admission 1998-- 1999-- 2000-- 2001-- 2002-- 2003-- 2004-- 2005-- 2006-- 2007

    Employment-based preferences 77,413-- 56,678-- 106,642--178,702--173,814--81,727--155,330--246,877--159,081--162,176

    First: Priority workers 21,375-- 14,844-- 27,566-- 41,672-- 34,168-- 14,453-- 31,291-- 64,731-- 36,960-- 26,697

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  • Macaca
    01-15 07:53 PM
    I would argue that Indian consulting biggies saw that they could offer resources to clients at much cheaper rates than offered by American consulting companies. That drove down billing rates for everyone.

    On the other hand if American consulting companies bill high rates to clients, they are at leat still paying decent wages to their employees. So wages stay at moderate levels. But what This whole tiered employement brought into play was that the actual employee was not getting paid too much but the client would still pay quite a bit, maybe not as much as what an American consulting company would bill. The wages of IT professionals went down.

    Also one cannot deny the fact that persons who faked their resumes have contributed to the decline of the quality of talent pool. Don't get me wrong, bad apples existed and thrived in both big and small companies. But the occurences of such misdeed is/was more rampant in body shops. Some examples are the hiring of fresh grads & H4 & other unskilled workers and passing them off as "high skilled resource".

    No one knows the impact of outsourcing. Because no public data is available unlike H1b or L1.

    If american public gets exact data about outsourcing then they will oppose that also and goverment has to act.

    But there is no legal binding for Government or Corporations to give data about outsourcing.

    Durbin/Grassley bill will check them also. But it will impact some good people also. We are opposing that because many of IV members may be impacted by that.

    Also most IV members feel that bill is conspiracy to eliminate h1b program. There is no easy solution for these issues.

    If they relax the rules fraud will increase and if they tighten it then some good persons also impacted.

    You have unbounded capacity for posting complete gargage.

    My morning post, deleted by IV geniuses, was for this garbage that dominates IV boards: a self inflicted wound.

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  • ArkBird
    03-30 02:17 AM
    Agreed but consider the other options. Lalu? Mulayam?? Mayawati???

    I will have tears of joy in my eyes if BJP get the majority but I know it will never happen... :(


    Please do understand MMS brought economic reforms when he was finance minister in P.V Narasimha Rao's govt.People thought country would see the same in 2004 when MMS was made PM. But Sonia Gandhi didn't give him that freedom.We didn't see any reforms in these 5 years.

    Opting for MMS is like saying I won't take Sonia/Rahul but would take them if they came with a wrapper called MMS. That's what MMS is.

    All those voting for MMS in the poll might as well vote for Rahul if you are bent on only congress party for communal/other reasons of your own.

    MMS is not even fighting these elections.As per congress party sources Sonia doesn't want to announce Rahul as PM candidate because if congress loses then Rahul has to take the blaim(which will affect his charisma..huh our leaders run not qualifications but charisma and even urban/rural people fall for that).If congress wins MMS will be replaced with Rahul citing health or some other issue within no time.
    I can understand rural masses but educated skilled people falling for the tactics of unskilled Sonia is something.No wonder she is going great.


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  • Legal
    07-22 02:12 PM
    Here's an Apr-2006 EB2-I approval posted today on Murthy forum:


    suspect he is spreading rumor. not clear what his country of chargeability is, since he did not respond to this question.

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  • dealsnet
    09-04 01:45 PM
    So next time of election, take vacation and go home, do campaigning, spend money and vote out the govt. you dislike, if you are real serious.

    Only the people that were part of those grabbings are happier. Let the poor people get back all their lands first and then you guys talk.

    How about all the "Anna's" that were killed by him who came to him when he invited and then killed them mercilessly.

    So, did you mourn when he killed all the "Anna's"? I am sure you would have distributed Sweets when "Anna's" were killed. Right?

    Isn't it Jesus Christ right? Jesus is God and he punished YSR with such a worst killing. Even face could not be recognized.


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  • bfadlia
    02-19 02:28 PM
    You guys see everything wrong with us. If the spouse works, you will say they are taking away your jobs. If they study, you say that they pay instate fees where as you pay international fee. If they do MBA and become your manager, you will say that not only they are getting jobs, now they are bossing over us. If they stay at home, you will find wrong with that too saying that they are not doing anything but are getting all the benefits..

    It does not matter if spouses stay at home and lose years of salaries which translates to more than the international fees that some people pay. It does not matter that we have to face hurdles in each and every step of the way, be it when getting medical insurance or life insurance or while traveling. We have to renew visas every year by paying thousands, we have to renew our licences. We have to go for visa stamping even if we have gone for an emergency visit. We have to remain in the same job without growth, without promotion. Do you know it is not easy for a H4 person to get a credit card to start building credit history?.

    If you have a solution to reduce all of our pain without increasing the waiting time for ROW people say it here cause that is what we need and what USCIS will appreciate. You do not have to bring corruption and all that crap into picture. That can be another discussion. If I have to pay fees to get some things faster then I will call it nothing but organized bribery within legal framework. That is what is happening in countries which you say is less corrupt, but then why do you care, you enjoy your soccer game....

    NKR, my friend, i'm puzzled, u speak of in-state tuition, visa stamping, life insurance.. how is that different for ROWs from others, we are all the same in that, we are all the same being skilled immigrants all of us, when i complain that someone says indians and chinese are here in larger numbers because they are best and brightest and ask them to be sensitive it doesn't mean that we all suffer the same hardships.. when i state the fact that bodyshops contributed to the longer lines for some countries i don't say i'm indifferent to your suffering, but i also say it can't be fixed by making another group suffer

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  • TeddyKoochu
    09-15 07:52 AM
    Year, TOT_LBRS, Certified, LBR_INDIA PD_>_10/1/2001
    2000 074048 70204 ????? 0
    2001 082139 77921 ????? 0
    2002 089168 79784 ????? 7873
    2003 095299 62912 ????? 25956
    2004 098866 43582 ????? 26569
    2005 014253 06133 01350 6133
    2006 105960 79782 22298 79782
    2007 098753 85112 24573 85112
    2008 061997 21092 07198 21092
    Total 720483 526522 55419 252517


    In 2005 there are a total of 01350 labors certified only for India.
    In 2006 there are a total of 22298 labors certified only for India.

    The other important thing here to note down is there are many outsourcing companies out there filed/filing GCs for their so called managers in EB1 category.

    Friends looks like that there is a consensus that folks with 2005 will get their GC soon, all of you have stated that there are very few labors for this year. How do we divide the labors for 2006, if we give 50% of them to EB2 I then I believe that by Sep 2010 year 2006 should get cleaned out. Another point is how the spillover is allocated quarterly, annually or randomly (How do we explain EB2I going back to 01 Jan 2000 and then recovering back). Definitely a quarterly spillover will make predictions & life easier! Something to factor is EB2-C, EB2-I date has almost caught up, traditionally it stays 1 yr behind (EB2-I lags EB2-C) in the early part of the year, this could be huge factor if both catch up.


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  • vdesi
    01-05 02:05 PM
    According to this all H1B's who want to buy a house ? can invest $40,000 should be given a GC out of turn.... Wow!
    What about people waiting in line patiently for five plus years, (labor, I140 and I485)?
    The line for those waiting patiently will not decrease, only people on bench for months willing to get GC at any cost will benefit.

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  • Macaca
    01-16 11:58 AM
    Wonder what is being achieved from these "lively" debates other than feeding the other side with enough ammo to decimate all of us.

    Nearly all laws/regulations originate from such garbage.

    Hira/Matloff's US born donkeys scavange these blogs 24/7. Some of these scavengers are hired.

    The garbage is then processed by Hira/Matloff.

    The processed garbage is passed to Dustbin/Grassley/Sanders and Herbst/Thibodeau. Herbst/Thibodeau print this garbage after adding sleaze (curry, slumdog, ...) and generalizing to all Americans. They pre-inform these (less then 10) donkeys who add more garbage within an hour and continue with distinct names. They block everyone out to give the impression that these are mainstream American opinions.

    Then, Dustbin/Gr assley/Sanders propose laws and USCIS makes regulations claiming all Americans are severly impacted.

    There is no problem if it true. But 80% is complete garbage.

    The 20% truth is a personal problem. It does not require a law/regulation - specially, a law/regulation to kill the entire system backdated for 10 US born donkeys.

    This is also the story of the Dustbin/Gr ass ley curry bill (in CIR 2010).

    Hira/Matloff have lied their ass off. At every level!

    It is very unfortunate that USICS/lawmakers (other than Dustbin, Grassley, Sanders) pander to these scumbags. Such laws/regulations will not provide any relief to these donkeys.


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  • alterego
    06-27 10:34 PM
    My 2 cents.
    USCIS does not control the PD dates, State dept does. The state dept will change the PD's to when it runs out of visas to provide USCIS.
    Case 1: Assume USCIS and State dept are in close touch over the currently approvable I-485s which can consume visas starting July 1

    If USCIS has 40K such approvable apps, then the State Dept (being in close coordination with USCIS abt numbers) would have just moved the dates to Nov 2005 for EB-2 India the date when it retrogressed and similarly to the date when EB-3 retrogression first happened for India.

    The fact that they did not do this means they do not have the sufficient numbers of approvable ones. Now the new ones filed in June or July will not become approvable until at least 90 days. So if they are hoping that some of the "new" 485 petitions filed in June/July will be straightforward enuf to approve in 4 months, they have to keep dates at current at least until July end.

    Case 2: USCIS and State dept are not coordinating "closely" over the approvable numbers

    This means the State dept arbitrarily changed the dates to Current instead of consulting with USCIS that they have 40K approvable petitions. And why woudl they in that case make the numbers unavailable in mid-july in that case?

    Lastly even if the numbers can become Unavailable it has to be announced by State Dept. So worst case scenario it can become "U" in July 11-15, which makes the claim by Matthew-OH that it can become unavailable in July first week itself ridiculous.

    I suspect that at the end of last month they did not have a lot of approvable 485 cases that were BOTH:

    1) Cleared namechecks.


    2) From countries other than CHINDIA.

    Hence they decided to move the dates to make use of the visa numbers. The majority of approvals you will see now will be those that conform to the above criteria. When they(the visas) are done they are done!

    I don't expect to see any of the 485s filed now to get approved anytime soon unless for some strange reason dates remain current until Sept............then you might see a few lucky ones squeeze through. So new 485 filers hold your breath until atleast next year!

    Come July 1st week, brace for a flood of celebratory postings online as the pre-approved cases get formally sent out letters.

    Come October if not earlier it will be normal service resumed, with massively retrogressed dates for CHINDIA, and mild to moderate retrogression for ROW.

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  • JazzByTheBay
    02-15 10:44 AM
    You can pack your bags and leave. You are here by your own choice, and work within the legal framework of the country. You are free to leave when you please.

    The slavery argument doesn't hold.


    Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century

    Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
    I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.



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  • Osiris
    07-22 12:37 AM
    One of the main problems with Indians is that they are too nice to say "No" most of the times! Stop being nice or polite to these guys! I have been approached by these people before and the only thing that I say them is "Just leave me alone! I have a life unlike you."

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  • mundada
    06-15 04:18 PM
    I hear you buddy but that is what America is and that is what makes America so great. The constant flow of immigrants/productivity growth through technological enhancements will always require you to keep upgrading your skills and hence your salary.

    The moment you were forced to enroll in MBA in an effort to upgrade your skills and hence increase your salary means American model and (comparative advantage) economics are working.

    The same thing happened in agriculture, then manufacturing, and now IT and other industries. It is inevitable!

    By the way, it is not dumping. Here is the real definition of dumping, "the act of a manufacturer in one country exporting a product to another country at a price which is either below the price it charges in its home market or is below its costs of production".

    For your information, I like everyone was, am and will most likely continue to be affected by the outsourcing/offshoring/onshoring/immigration/technological innovation/etc.

    Finally protectionism does not work. Take a look at Detroit... in 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, the workers bargained for high salaries, job security, retirement benefit plans, etc., free and clear from any foreign worker competition. And now in 2009, take a look at what happened to these workers at the big three, to their house values, to their children's future, to their retirement funds, etc.

    After this do you really think you can protect yourself by closing the door behind you when that is the only exit door, in case you need one!

    Ivar and group,

    I think you guys are missing the plot here. Let me reiterate loud and clear. I am NOT against immigrants getting GC. I will not, even in my wildest dreams, claim that the recession is due to the H1Bs and L1s. That is complete baloney spread around by the anti immigrant lobby. My point is let the deserving the GCs soon and not go thru the mindless wait I went thru.

    Having said that I am for the following :

    1. If the outsourcing companies would pay on an avg at 80K per head for the "well qualified" people, I am even ok with their dumping their dumping the L1s here. Why is it that you guys are ok with the L1s being dumped at 40K-60K salaries ? Shuldn't they get paid high too ? This is what I am arguing for. If the outsourcing cos dont want to pay this rate, then keep them in the country of origin. No need to depress wages here. Is this a wrong thing to ask ?

    2. Grassley's bill may force some companies to move entirely to India or China. Isnt that good for India and China ? Why are the pro immigrants against this ? Some times I get the feeling as to who actually is pro and who is anti immigrant !!!! In adition, it may eliminate the many backlogs and help the deserving people here.

    3. People who have made a conscious decision to immigrate here have done so considering the standard of living as one of the primary factors in their decisions. In order to enjoy this standard of living, people have to constantly upgrade skillsets to remain competitive in an industry or move to another industry where mass interest is relatively low. Why should these people's lives, after all the travails, be impacted by the low wage scum outsourcing companies. Please remember these companies, like an other company on earth, operate only on self interest. No point in supporting such companies which in adition to the self interest principle also flout rules with abandon.

    4. In my opinion, self interest has alwyas resulted in the greater good of society. Do not confuse self interest with greed. Greed is what caused this financial mess. If people/companies operated with concern for greater societal good, they would have spent billions in concocting an AIDS vaccine for the children in Africa than to spend the same billions in concocting VIAGRA for the rich old men. Since employment based immigration debate involves companies' interests too, we have to balance societal good with some impact for the companies. My suggestion here is that let the outsourcers take the hit. They have always benefitted by flouting the rules. If your concern is way too high for your L1 brothers then you would find it prudent to bring in the law that clearly states "Pay high wages for the L1s or dont bring them in here". I dont understand what is wrong here ? Is it that I didnt convey my message across right or is it that people blindly support immigration ?


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  • chanduv23
    06-28 04:51 PM
    Today, he emailed by HR directly and told them that "we will file everyone's 485 in first week of July ".

    He also said that there is no need to panic because AILA is already threatening USCIS with lawsuit and right now its in negotiations state. (Whatever). He said that the thread from AILA will prevent USCIS from doing the same mischief again in July 2007 to EB2, and EB3 categories. (Somehow I dont buy that, I dont think USCIS is afraid of anyone and they are acting like and independent body ... like the Supreme court working on its own schedule and own whims).

    So the thing is...he acknowledges what happened with EB3-other category in June and says that he will file in July first week (good for me and my other co-workers) but he is still sticking to his guns that "It wont happen because USCIS will be scared of AILA".

    What USCIS has done for EB3-other worker category is violation of federal regulation and it cannot just ignore the visa bulletins because it feels like doing so and its having a bad day. But nonetheless, the people who make these decisions dont get sued. The agency gets sued, and those lawsuits are fought by internal lawyers who are on USCIS payroll. They get some heat for violating the federal regulation but its not like they would lose their shirt over it.

    Should we change the topic of this thread - "Please file in July first week" ??

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  • rajeev_74
    09-24 07:04 AM
    for people who own or will buy homes ? We could also say that this can come from recapture but only for already or potential home owners...

    It could be part of the Bail out package...


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  • manderson
    02-13 11:30 AM
    If I am not mistaken I believe Rajiv Khanna already filed such a lawsuit some years ago and lost.

    Which makes me agree with walking_dude. With the new NC>180 rule, we can get pretty good momentum by recapturing lost visas and if possible by also increasing country caps and a increase of EB visas from 2009 onwards.

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  • skrish
    09-24 09:51 PM
    Hi All,

    Just wanted to let all know, that I had made this suggestion sometime back on the IV NY yahoogroups. looks like it has gained traction since then. I ad also sent mails to Zoe Loefgren, the President and VP back then. :)

    I have sent my mails and told all my friends to send too. lets Go For it ....

    Together, We shall Overcome

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  • BharatPremi
    07-13 01:43 AM
    Canada immigration is simple & straight forward.

    No expensive lawyers are required or any lengthy procedures. Just self do. Also look at the currency rate of US and Canada almost same... Tax is a little high but medical is fully covered.

    You need to fill forms,send all your education, papers etc and LO ! you are done and get PR Card. Some of my friends got it in less than 2 yrs.

    go to http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp and you can apply on your own.

    P.S: I am not an lawyer. Just another frusted GC wait, wait no reply candidate.

    Canadian Immigration is simple.. But then what? Are you ready to live your life in socialist welfare state? Buying a home in CAN $ 200000 in year 2007 will give you $ 5000 top in Year 2030.. Are you ready for that? Do not choose Good apples from the basket. This guy got a job from Microsoft does not mean that easily you would get settled...One thing I do not understand is why so much zeal about Canadian immigration on American immigration forums.. Is it some mental syndrome to make people part of your own guilt?

    By the way my very nearest relatives and friends have choosen (Many are in IT as well..) Canada to get settled... Some live there since last 20 years... I know how Canada works... And believe me if you get USA GC done.. Canada is not worth considering....More or less Canada is not that a dynamic society... It is still 16th Century European mind set... I can understand someone may get it done as backup but here it seems that some of the people are out to the mission .. And I have a problem there. If somebody is in really a bad shape of US Green card and all doors are going to be closed soon and considering Canada.. That is understandable... But living in US, stating to love USA and writing to drive others out of USA looks contradictory to me.. Hypocrates... US GC is broken and f@@cked up so what .. Try to fight it out as long as you can...And believe me not everbody's grapes are sour yet.

    Other thing, with decision of corporates you can not take decisiion to unsettle your life.. Argument: Microsoft decides to go to Canada and is hirring you .. What can go wrong...many things can go wrong.. you do not know and many things cannot be proved.. With myself it already happened.. In year 2001 Bubble burst my then employer gave me a choice to move to Canada ( Exactly Microsoft kind of public declaration.. Company is also very prestigious and more or less you can consider it of the size of Microsoft).... I took decision not to go and so I was out of the company.. Some friends went there.. after 2 years laid off.. Those 2 years they got American salary on Canadian land (Dream, huh !!!!!!!!) ,, But then what after lay off.. One of them had to sit 6 months to get proper job.. Way less salary... Can this happen to everybody? May not be..But the bottom line is you will have to fiight out the hurdles.. Here you have GC Process hurdle.. In canada you may not have that but you may be having other 100 hurdles... What will you do then? WIll you go to Australia? ...There are 600 countries so at the most you can do 600 migrations :-) By the way both of my friends now want to come back to USA after getting citizenship and their families do not want to move as they have mentally fed up with this move from country to country.. So wise up... my friend

    01-05 05:00 PM
    Why amway cannot sell brand products that you get at walmart and other stores. What is stopping amway from having a partnership with these companies and sell quality products?

    02-18 05:41 PM
    I agree that his arguments are valuable...

    And I believe that those must be countered point to point...
    You see... our target membership audience consists of very intelligent people..They come to this site and read UnitedNations arguments...If they accept those arguments ... what would be the net result.???...They would just go away....It gets directly in the way of our efforts.....

    That is the reason for this whole shoot out.....

    I don't look at it as a shoot out or trying to pick on people and say the situation is hopeless.

    I have a lot of postings on immigration.com and I can tell you definitively that the conversations on this portal are much more constructive and educated. On the other portal there are people who still think it is a conspiracy of holding back visas and government wants people out. No matter how much one talks about the law and visa allocations they do not look at the facts but rather wallow in self misery and conspiracy theories.

    There are others who don't pay much attention to immigration matters and belive the rhetoric that a law change is around the corner and it will increase the vsias by a substantial amount. In my opinion from everything I know; regarding allocation of visas; number of pending cases at backlog centers; number of perm approvals; number of people here on h-1b; O visas, L-1' university H-1b's; the wait could be minimum ten years for people from severely retrogressed countries. Until people can understand this; and I am afriad that the only way people will understand this is if USCIS/DOS issued exact statistics of how many I-140's there are where 485's haven't been filed; how many 485's are pending which can't be approved; how quickly they process eb2 row and eb3 row cases and how frequently they come into the pipeline then an educated guess cannot be made with any great precision. However, everything I know would say that everyone from india in eb3 and eb2 should just stop watching the visa bulletin because at the current pace and law; it would take five years to just approve one year of greencards which happened in 2005 and even then the dates were back to 2002. Since January 2005 there hasn't been any eb3 approvals from India with priority dates after June 2002. You can just imagine how big the numbers are. There was over 50,000 H-1b visas issued in 2005 (can't tell which were intial h-1b's or just revalidation); 20,000 H-4's; 20,000 L-1's, 20,000 f-1s; 200,000 visitor visas. That was all just in one year. When there is only going to be 10,800 greencards compared to these numbers it becomes mind boggling.

    Regarding arguments and counter arguments. When one does a presentation or getting ready for a presentation you always need to understand the other side of the argument. If you don't then you cannot counter it and will lose credibility. So some of the things I have pointed out need to be countered/mitigated to have any reasonable chance of success. For example the 485 filing without priority date; how many people knew that a person on visitor visa could file a 485; people from family base who are illegally here would be able to flip over to EB and come into this stream; people on L-1; f-1, etc. The numbers would be so huge that without quota change, etc. it would be a disaster. If the plan was to first ask for this and then six months later say; hey look now we have 2 million people going for greencard and you should increase the quota now; it might fall on deaf ears for many years.

    Just in case you want to ask; I don't have good answers; there will be much more arguments to use about not attracting/retaining once all of EB retrogresses. The scientists; executives on L-1 from companies like Citibank; hsbc, etc also get retrogressed then you will hear much more noise.

    Within immigration there is competing interests. You have political asylee issue where there was a cap of 10,000 annually even though there are hundreds of thousands of people waiting for it. It took them many, many years to lift the cap. there are 12 million undocumented workers who could pose a security risk if you listen to all the security pundits; there are EB3 skilled workers who cannot get into the country because they don't quality for h-1 and have to wait outside; there are teenagers; young adults who came with their undocumented parents who are trying to legalize, etc. Phillipinos who are sponsoring their siblings have to wait for 23 years.

    In EB we are one of the few who hold non immigrant visas that allow us to get a greencard while we are in USA. Just about all the other categories of non immigrant visas require a person to stay out of usa until they get the greencard. As I said in a previous posting; I firmly believe that EB is the least disadvantaged of the various routes to get permanent residency.